The Iliad, Book Two: King Agamemmnon vs. King Ahab , and Bad Advice We Want to Hear

This new experiment is working! I'm actually reading the Iliad with a bit more enjoyment and understanding than before, hanging the hooks of this new story and knowledge on more familiar hooks - the scriptures.

I've been in the scriptures in one way or another my entire life, but this is my first reading of the Iliad. Not my first try - I've tried many times. For whatever reason (many reasons now), I've failed to continue through more that, say, Book Five. It's a very, very thick book. A much harder read than the Odyssey, for me.

But using the more familiar scriptures makes this a much easier literary hike than it was before...and even more interesting! Looking for parallels between the two yields some very interesting ideas.

 

Jupiter sends the evil dream to Agamemnon

Book Two - Jupiter's Dream

Because Zeus has promised Thetis that her son Achilles will receive retribution for losing his pride and his beloved concubine Briseis, Zeus starts Book 2 by sending that retribution he promised in the form of a false dream, promising the king that if he mobilizes his forces for battle, they will win.

 

 Now pleasing sleep had seal’d each mortal eye,
Stretch’d in the tents the Grecian leaders lie:

The immortals slumber’d on their thrones above;
All, but the ever-wakeful eyes of Jove.

 To honour Thetis’ son he bends his care,
And plunge the Greeks in all the woes of war:

Then bids an empty phantom rise to sight,
And thus commands the vision of the night.

“Fly hence, deluding Dream! and light as air,

To Agamemnon’s ample tent repair.

Bid him in arms draw forth the embattled train,
Lead all his Grecians to the dusty plain.

Declare, e’en now ’tis given him to destroy
The lofty towers of wide-extended Troy.

For now no more the gods with fate contend,
At Juno’s suit the heavenly factions end.

Destruction hangs o’er yon devoted wall,
And nodding Ilion waits the impending fall.”

And thus the dream descends on Agamemnon, and he awakens, convinced that he will win the war, when in fact, he and his men will be led into even more suffering.

1 Kings Chapter 22 - Micaiah's Vision

A similar story awaits in this chapter, where the wicked King Ahab seeks out his prophets to tell him if he will win the upcoming battle in Ramoth-Gilead against Syria.

All his prophets tell him they are predicting his victory. The other king in the battle, Jehoshaphat, asks if King Ahab will ask a prophet of the Lord for his prediction.

The King says there is a prophet, but he hates him, because he always predicts evil concerning him. (This generally happens with prophets - if you do evil deeds, the forecast tends to be somewhat bad news unless you repent.)

The prophet Micaiah the son of Imlah is called before the king. When he comes, at first he predicts a rousing victory, in almost exactly the same wording as Ahab's prophets have used.

Ahab isn't fooled. He tells Micaiah to tell him what the Lord actually said.

Then he comes out with it in verses 17-18, and King Ahab's response is such an I-told-you-so. It's almost comical:

 

And he said, 

I saw all Israel scattered upon the hills, 

as sheep that have not a shepherd: 

and the Lord said, These have no master: 

let them return every man to his house in peace.

And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, 

Did I not tell thee that he would prophesy no good concerning me, but evil?

 

Micaiah further goes on to tell a vision of what happened with Ahab's priests, to warn him (in verses 19-23):

 

And he [Micaiah] said, 

Hear thou therefore the word of the Lord: 

I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, 

and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

And the Lord said, 

Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? 

And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, 

and said, I will persuade him.

And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? 

And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. 

And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

Now therefore, 

behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, 

and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Micaiah was punished for telling the truth, as Ahab had punished many other prophets for telling him what he didn't want to hear - thrown into jail. Ahab goes out to fight, and is killed, just as the Lord said he would be. And every man returned to his own house.

 

In both stories, God (or Zeus) was angry with these men for their behavior, and either sent punishment or removed blessings that would favor them.

Zeus was more direct about it. He meant to humble Agamemnon to ask Achilles to fight with them again, and give Achilles back his honor which he had taken from him. 

But Agamemnon himself was not in mortal danger at this point. 

In the case of King Ahab, he had ignored the Lord too long, and not listened when the Lord's prophets tried to correct him. 

For killing prophets and leading his people to commit sins before God, God removed his protections from King Ahab, and let him follow bad counsel from his counselors, which ended his life. 

 

What can we learn from this? Lots of things, but one good thing might be to be very careful when I come across someone who's telling me what I want to hear. 

I've found that it's best to check such counsel with people who want the best for me and will tell me the truth, regardless of whether I like it or not. It can help me make better decisions. 

 

Beware the easy road!

 

Dallin H. Oaks and Thomas Hobbes's Description of Life

Again, I skipped over a bunch of talks with no external quotes in them, and finally found this one, written by Dallin H. Oaks in his talk, "Strive for Excellence" in the October 1971 Conference.

It felt significant a little, especially since Dallin H. Oaks is now President Oaks, having recently become president and prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.  At the time he gave this talk, he was serving as President of Brigham Young University.

 

 The Quote (Expanded for Context)

As I have studied this subject (excellence), 

my thoughts have been drawn to some lines I read at BYU 

some twenty years ago. 

The first of these lines you will think strange 

as an illustration of the subject of education in the Church. 

They were written by Thomas Hobbes, 

the seventeenth century English political philosopher, 

in his greatest work, The Leviathan.

In describing the nature of man, 

Hobbes wrote that “the life of man [is] solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.” 

This is a classic example of the philosophies of man. 

I am grateful that my education exposed me to that thought 

and others like it, 

because my familiarity with these thoughts 

has helped me to understand the world and its peoples and its problems.

But most of all, 

I am grateful that my educational program was such 

that at the time I was exposed to this view of man, 

I was also being taught these lines:

“Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.” (2 Nephi 2:25)

 

I'm also very familiar with that quote by Thomas Hobbes  - but I did not know about the Leviathan.

What's more, I didn't also know that Thomas Hobbes was describing a world at war when he said that famous quote. In that context, I definitely agree with his summation:

 

""Whatsoever therefore is consequent to a time of Warre, 

where every man is Enemy to every man; 

the same is consequent to the time, wherein men live without other security, 

than what their own strength, and their own invention shall furnish them withall. 

In such condition, there is no place for Industry; 

because the fruit thereof is uncertain; 

and consequently no Culture of the Earth; 

no Navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by Sea; 

no commodious Building; 

no Instruments of moving, and removing such things as require much force; 

no Knowledge of the face of the Earth; 

no account of Time; 

no Arts; no Letters; no Society; 

and which is worst of all, continuall feare, and danger of violent death; 

 And the life of man, solitary, poore, nasty, brutish, and short. 

 

The 'short' part would be a relief in a situation like that.

War is the ultimate condition of chaos, where nothing thrives. This was his premise - that we as humans needed a social contract in order to bring order to chaos, otherwise every man would fight every man, because that is Mankind's nature.

And while I do agree that creating a sort of social contract does make for a more peaceful and prosperous society, there is more, far more, than mere legal boundaries that keep us from going to each other's throats.

The reason I expanded the quote is to show there's more than one way for life to be. 

For some of us, there is God, and Jesus Christ. There are blessings and purpose and progression and meaning to life that come from living God's laws, and accepting Jesus Christ as our Savior.

 

Life is hard for all of us, sometimes poor, sometimes nasty or brutish. Even sometimes shorter than we would like. But in the middle of that, there can also be joy, even in the worst possible circumstances.

It all depends on our focus. 

 

 

 

Elder Sterling W. Sill and Martin Luther's Table Talk

We move past several talks here, to eventually land on Elder Sterling W. Sill's talk, "Thou Shalt Not" - yet another talk featuring the Ten Commandments, which seemed to be something of a theme in 1971.

 

The Quote

"Sin is more than ordinarily important, 

for as Martin Luther once said, 

“One vice can overcome ten virtues.” 

 

Yes, depending on the vice, that's true. A reputation can still be quickly ruined for even a single offense online today, no matter how hard a person works or how good they are before that point. It seems unfair, but that's what often happens. Yet at other times, people somehow overlook the vice to some extent. 

So did Martin Luther actually say this, and where did he say it? Or something like it?

Martin Luther's Table Talk

And so I came upon an item I didn't know existed. I knew that Martin Luther had nailed up his 97 Theses to the door of the All-Saints Church in Wittenburg, Germany (which maybe was true or maybe not, kind of like Washington and the cherry tree). But I didn't know about his other writings.

This book, his Table Talk, is really interesting. It seems to contain a lot of his sayings and wisdom, along with some personal stories of his life. And it appears that he did say something along the lines of the quote that ended up in the Conference talk.

In Section CCCXCVIII (398) of the chapter entitled 'Of Preachers and Preaching', he said the following:

 

"The defects in a preacher are soon spied; 

let a preacher be endued with ten virtues, 

and but one fault, 

yet this one will eclipse and darken all his virtues and gifts, 

so evil is the world in these times. 

Dr. Justus Jonas has all the good virtues and qualities a man may have;

yet merely because he hums and spits, 

the people cannot bear that good and honest man."

Intriguing. I may peruse this source a bit further. 

And yes, you're welcome for searching through all those Roman numerals to find just the spot - although I have to admit a bit of help from this handy-dandy Roman numeral converter.

 

Elder A. Theodore Tuttle, Part Four: The Problem with Dr. Paul Popenoe

  For Part One, Part Two, or Part Three, click on that link!

Sometimes in researching history, we find people who we feel are ahead of their time, like they understood life as we know it today. 

And then sometimes, there are others who did the best they could with what they knew...but from our perspective, it doesn't look very good at all.

Today's quote involves the latter, from Elder A. Theodore Tuttle's talk, "The Things That Matter Most": 

 

The Quote

Dr. [Paul] Popenoe said, 

“Our youth are not products of their own lives, 

but of what their parents give them. 

If we can get parents to set a good example, 

we will take away 

the greatest stumbling block between generations.” 

 

Pretty innocuous - sounding, right? Parents, set a good example for your kids, and there's good things that come out of that. Who could disagree, right?

And then, I looked up the guy who (presumably) said it.  Dr. Paul Popenoe -

Oh boy.

We've Got Another Eddie Cantor here...

Like I said in my blog about the reference to Eddie Cantor, sometimes we can look at someone from history and explore more of what they said or did, and use it as enrichment for our current lives.

And sometimes... just not. 

You know, like how people can either, by their choices and examples, become shining examples or horrible warnings?

 

Meet My Grandparents 

I have one grandmother who I loved with all my girlish heart - she was a great example to me of how to age gracefully. She always seemed happy and was glad to help others. She stayed active and interested in life, and she loved all of her grand-kids. I wanted to be like her. She created a future that I wanted to grow into. 

My other set of grandparents stood out in stark contrast. They weren't interested in people, but stayed in their room, watching pro wrestling on TV, always insisting that it was real, when even as a small child, I wasn't buying it. 

They grumbled and complained about everything. They seemed more angry than happy, and didn't take care of themselves physically. I didn't want to be anywhere near them, and felt like this could also be my future. One that I feared. They were half my DNA, and I wished I could cut them out of my life completely.

Of course, reality was much more nuanced than I was able to understand at eight years old, and I realized that as I grew older. The way I thought about my grandparents is how a lot of people think about history. If historical figures don't agree with us today, then they were terrible people and we should shut them out entirely of our experience, right?

Right?

Well, not fully.

Obviously, Dr. Paul Popenoe said the good thing that ended up in the Conference talk as gospel-compatible - at least, he's attributed here with saying it.. When I went to search for this quote in his existing works, I came across some very objectionable ideas I will not reprint here. Eugenics is a topic that is no longer looked upon with warmth and acceptance today, for very good reason.

Did Dr. Popenoe realize in the 1920s that his work in eugenics would help fuel the Nazi Holocaust and contribute to the deaths of millions upon millions of people the Nazis considered to be 'waste humanity' (his words)?

There's some evidence that he may have, sadly.  I can't recommend any of his works as good or useful today, and I certainly won't be adding them to my reading list. Some lessons have been learned, and we can leave those works behind, except if we need to learn what not to do or think. 

Again, do what you like with this information, but you've been warned.

But remember, few people are fully bad or fully good. 

 

There's (Almost) Always Another Side to History 

My grandmother that I loved also smoked and played cards, two aspects of her life that I can't emulate myself. Almost every kid she had came from a different father, because no one taught her anything about sex back then. I did the complete opposite of her in that area, even to the point of hosting a blog about sexuality for awhile with my hubby.

My grandparents that I thought were so horrible had one of the best and closest marriage relationships of anyone in either of their families. They played together as children, and married when they grew up. My grandfather looked like David Bowie when he was young, and had a work ethic that would have crushed lesser men. My grandmother loved her sons and protected them with the determination and strength of a junkyard bulldog - all very admirable traits.

 

We're all a mix of black and white and shades of gray, in the end.

Dr. Popenoe is, on the whole, one of those horrible historical warnings overall, as well as being my fifth cousin three times removed. Bleah.

He may have said some good things, and perhaps had some good intentions that went very wrong, not having the benefit of hindsight that I have in the era I live in. I'm content to let God figure out where he falls in the spectrum of good and bad, as I am with my grandparents.

One day history will judge me, and who knows what they'll know then, and how stupid I look to them. I would hope that future generations would judge me as mercifully as possible, and I'll try to do the same for the past. 

That to me is another "stumbling block between generations" that we should probably keep an eye on, don't you think?